Center for Louisiana Studies Archival Catalog

Tom Derouen, Jason Theriot, Hewitt Theriot:

-Summer of 1941 graduated from Texas A&M with a masters
-Hired at A&M and taught till March 1942 when he was called into the service; had received a commission from LSU in 1939
-In the service took basic at Fort Benning, Georgia; was a second Lieutenant and the youngest there (in his 20s)
-Already assigned to the 90th Infantry Division at Camp Barkley, Texas; spent a year and half there
-Moved over to the deserts of California and Arizona for 6 months before going to Fort Dix, New Jersey; took 10 days on a troop train

-While at Camp Barkley they would leave Monday morning for maneuvers in the hills and stayed outside until Friday or Saturday
-Slept on the ground, made their own latrines, dug holes for garbage
-Had to march out 15-20 miles and back each time (1942)
-1943 went to Fort Dix and stayed till March 1944
-Was loaded onto ships to Europe; was sea sick the whole time

-Landed in England and prepared for an invasion
-Had practice invasions at Devonshire, the Slapton Sands; it was a disaster
-When Derouen’s regiment, the 357th landed, everything was fine but the next regiment (either 359th or 358th) never came in
-Germans had snuck in on PT boats in the waterways and sunk the regiments’ boats; lost over 600 men before the actual invasion
-It was kept quiet so the morale would stay up; learned of it 20 years later

(9:30) Invasion
-Loaded onto boats at Whales, Bathe England
-Kept them in a big compound for a week as they loaded up
-Derouen made the invasion; “it’s not a pretty thing….I don’t like to talk about it much”
-Thinks he landed at Utah beach
-Landed next to the 9th, 4th and 1st divisions; each country had their own beach
-Was just a platoon leader for a heavy weapons company; attached to K Company under Capt. Woodrow Allen from Texas
-Fought with rifles most of the time and not machine guns (only had 4)

-Got in skirmishes with the Germans all the time
-In the hedgerows in France they were close to each other; Germans were prepared already with 88 mm canons, heavy casualties on the Allies side
-Derouen stayed in France until May 1945
-Before the invasion General Patton and General Middleton spoke to them
-Took about 6 weeks for them to break out of Normandy; the 90th split and some went to Cherbourg and the rest to Paris
-Still attached to K Company
-Half the time they didn’t know where they were or what they were doing; the orders changed a lot
-Casualties were high; Captain Allen was promoted to Battalion Commander and was killed the next day
-The mind went haywire with all the killing and bombing; men dying left and right of you

(17:05) Going Across the English Channel
-On a big ship and then went down a net to a Higgins boat
-Planes were passing over them
-Thought he was ready for adventure but he was scared
-You shot in the bushes because you were scared and maybe you shot a German or maybe a civilian

(19:12) Living in England
-Didn’t see much of England; trained all the time
-Only the elderly, women and children were left as all the men went into service; they were bombed every night
-American soldiers however criticized them calling them backwards; caused a lot of fights

(22:49)
-Had to march everywhere
-Derouen did not last the whole campaign in Normandy; was wounded on July 10th, 1944
-Was on guard patrol in the morning and crossing a hedgerow and he slipped and fell and his carbine shot off into his leg
-Spent about 6 months in England in a hospital; was not able to go back into the 90th division
-Was put in charge of training a company of soldiers on how to shoot; trained 200 men for 4-6 weeks
-Worked with other officers and sometimes they were trouble and did not do what was ordered; Derouen was in charge

(29:00) Talking
-Hewitt Theriot telling of his experiences; Derouen and Theriot comparing
-Looking at a map that was drawn on a cricket bat that Derouen used while at the hospital; inscribed: “HMS Deminion Monarch, Gen. Collins, March 1944”
-The bombing of Sainte-Mère-Église
-Staying at the hospital and therapy
-Back at the states stayed at the Augusta George resort hotel hospital for another 6 months; very well taken care of there
-Didn’t like the French, too lazy; German POWs workers messed around a lot
-Teaching at Texas A&M in 1941; born in New Iberia
-While at war, in England, ran into Butch Kennedy from LSU (football), was a paratrooper (47:10)
-Knew Eddie Gatto (killed in Normandy) and he was a good friend of Hewitt Theriot; stories about him
-Also both knew an All American football palyer from LSU, Tim Cavanaugh
-Before going back to the states Derouen stayed at a ski lodge in Switzerland
-How he met his wife, Lela in July 1946; married a year later

Transcription Begins:

Tom Derouen
New Iberia, LA
Company K, 357th Regiment, 90th Infantry Division
Utah Beach
Interview conducted on July 15, 2001

In the summer of 1941, I graduated with a masters from Texas AM. They hired me to teach. I taught till March '42, when I was called into the service. I received my commission from LSU in 1939. I took basic at Frt. Benning Georgia. I went to school there with a bunch of officers, some were Col. and Lt. Col. I was a second Lt. Some of those Col.'s were 40, 50-years old. One time I was shaving in the bathroom, when one of these big Col.'s walked in and stood next to me. His face was all red, and I said " Good morning sir" and he said " Son that is a matter of opinion." He had been out the night before and he had a hang over. I was in my 20's.

I had already been assigned to the 90th Inf.Division. They were organizing the division at Camp Barkley TX, south of Abilene. I went there after basic and spent a year and a half there. From camp Barkley we moved to the desert of California and Arizona for 6 months. From there we went to Frt. Dix New Jersey on Christmas Day. The train ride there was a troop train and it took ten days and we never got off.

In the desert we would sleep outside in tents. We didn't have any buildings to live in. In the morning we would leave on maneuvers all day. I learned how to live outside. At Barkley we would leave on Monday morning and would stay till Friday or Saturday morning. We stayed out there and slept on the ground. We made our own latrine, to urinate and defecate. We dug another hole to bury the garbage. We had to march 15-20 miles out. This was 1942. We walked there and walked back. We didn't like that. In 1943 we came to Frt. Dix. We stayed till about March. (Mr. Derouen is having difficulty remembering the time-line of his training in the states. He pauses and excuses himself.) Let me go get something, it will help me remember.

(He comes back holding a thin piece of wood about a foot long and 3" wide.) I own 35 acres right here" (of cattle grazing land near Avery Isl. The piece of wood seems to refresh his memory. He sits back down, more confidant now, gently rubbing the piece with his thumb. He corrects his early mistake.)

Uh… We kept training at Fort Dix. It was cold as heck out there. There was snow and ice on the ground. We left on March 22, 1944, we loaded up on some ships to go to Europe. In Liverpool England we landed. I was so sick, so sea sick on that ship I hardly ate. But they had good food on there. They had eggs. You never get eggs in the United States, maybe powdered eggs, but anyhow we landed in England and prepared for the Invasion. I didn't know what it was. In May we had a practice invasion at Devonshire England at what they call Slapton Sands. It was somewhat similar to the beaches in Normandy. What happened at that practice invasion was a disaster. I didn't know it, but my regiment, the 357th made our landing with packs and everything OK, but the 359 or 358 had a disaster. The Germans, with small PT boats, snuck in there and the navy was supposed to be guarding that water-way, but they somehow got in. And they sunk some of those boats that the troops were in and we lost over 600 men…drowned…before the invasion. They kept it quiet. Gen. Ike ordered this to keep morale up, nothing was said about it until about 20 years after I got back, I read it in the paper. The people at Devonshire didn't know what was happening, but I saw what was going on. I could see the bombs, the splashing of the water and I thought that was just part of the excersise. We lost 600 men right there.

We loaded onto boats at Whales, Bathe England. They put us in a big compound for a week or so, until we could load up on ships to go make the invasion. I made the invasion. It's not a pretty thing. They talk about this movie (Saving Private Ryan.), something about uh… They thought I should go see that…I don't want to go see that. I was part of it and I don't need to go relive the misery! I don't like to talk about that much.

Utah Beach. I was next to the 9th divisions and the 4th and the 1st, the big red one. Americans had Omaha and Utah. The Canadians had a beach; the English had a beach. I was a platoon leader for a heavy weapons company, with machine guns. I was attached to an infantry company, K Company, under Capt. Woodrow Allen. He was a tall Texas AM man. I had just graduated from AM. He was a few years older than me, and he was the company commander. A dern good man. I was in support of him. I had 4 machine guns, water-cooled. Only one time we set up. Most of the time we fought with rifles. These men carried the tri-pod on their back; one man carried the barrel. You carried a carbine or a rifle to protect yourself. We got in skirmishes with the Germans all the time. In the hedgerows in France, we would be close to each other, about from here to my fence over there (He points toward an old wooden fence outside of his glass sliding door, about 20 yards away) sometimes even closer. The hedgerows had shrubbery growing, like lagustrums. It was a fence, for property line. The Germans would be right on the other side of that, we'd been marching and the Germans were all set up with 88 mm cannons, rapid-fire rifles, all kinds of stuff. So we had heavy casualties. We stayed till May of 1945.

Before the invasion, back in England, Gen. Patton, and Gen. Middleton talked to us about the invasion. Well, Patton he was a ruff-n-tuff sort of fellow. I remember one statement he made, "don't wait till you see the whites of their eyes, shoot the SOB's before that." Then Middleton spoke. He was a Corp Commander, Third Army.

It was about 6 weeks before we broke out of Normandy. Some of us (the 90th) went to Cherbourg; the rest of us went south, all the way to Paris. I didn't know what was going on. You didn't know where you were half the time. They changed the orders all the time. Casualties were high even in the higher-ranking. Col. Sheeggie, the Regimental Commander was killed. Your mind just goes haywire with all that killing and bombing, your losing your men right and left. Captain Allen was promoted to Battalion Commander and the next day he was killed.

(He goes back to the voyage across the English Channel.) We were on a big ship, and we would go down a net to the little Higgins boats, the boats made in New Orleans. Planes were passing over. At that time in my life I was very young and ready for adventure and excitement. It didn' t take long. But I was kinna scared myself, I WAS SCARED! I won't lie to you. Americans are strange people. They talk about if you shoot in the bushes, you might shoot some civilians, women and children, but hell you don't know what's in those bushes, you're scared as hell, and you have to protect yourself! I hear about that in the news media. News makes a big deal out of it. Hell I know that I shot in some bushes many a times, I don't know if I killed somebody or not, I probably have. I've seen some of my men kill some Germans right out. That still worries me, it stays on my mind.

Living in England, well we didn't get to see too much of England, we trained all the time. We'd march through the countryside 5 or 10 miles a day, for excersise. What was left in England was old people, women young and older who were left to do the work. I admired the British people, because all their young men were in the service, they were fighting in the war. Also, they were getting bombed almost every night, so they did the best they could. But the American soldiers criticized them; they are backwards, they don't know how to do anything. One time, after the V-E Day, in Salisbury England, a British Crack-fighting unit came home. The Americans were at this big dance hall partying. They had the biggest fight between the two, and they beat the tar out of the Americans. That made the newspaper.

On July 10, 1944 I was wounded crossing a hedgerow. I was on guard detail. I was going to check on that. It was kind of drizzling and it was early in the morning. I slipped and fell, I was carrying my carbine with the barrel down, to keep the water from getting into the gun. That gun went off and a bullet cracked the bone in my leg and I spent at least six months in England in a hospital. Till this day I wear support hoes, cause it swells up. After that, they put me training a company of soldiers who were going to Europe. We were doing what they called Liberty Service. I was with other officers and NCO's who had fought in Europe and who could return. I trained 200 men how to be disciplined and how to shoot a rifle, automatic machine guns. I trained them for 4-6 weeks and then they went off. I told them to write me letters and let me know how they were doing, and some of them did. They tell me they appreciate the misery that I put them through. (No doubt his tuff training help save some of their lives)

(The piece of wood is a cricket board. He played cricket in the hospital. On the back is a map and an inscription- HMS Deminion Monarch. Gen. Collins, March 1944. The map depicts his journey across the channel to Normandy and the little towns he must have traveled through during the breakout.) St. Mare Eglise was a town of about 5,000, it was completely destroyed, I mean just rubble. We went right through it.

(He gets up again, walks into the hallway and comes right back with a small prayer book and a picture of himself in uniform in April 1945.)

I went back to the States and they sent me to Augusta George, to a hospital there. It was a resort hotel that the Army made a hospital out of it. It was a good-time place, let's put it that way. While I was there they straightened out my leg. They had a golf coarse, swimming pool, a dinning hall, gymnasium, and a chapel. At night they would have a nightclub. The nurses would come. (The Army took care of him on the way out!)

(During his interview, Mr. Derouen describes his feelings toward the British; how he admires them and describes why, he also talks about the French people, who he doesn't care for very much. He says the French take two hours for lunch. He also talks about a situation involving German prisoners; we take it up from here…)

One time some German prisoners were supposed to put supplies on a train. They were working kinna slow and I saw what they were doing, and I said "Look, if y'all don't get that train straighten out I'll take you behind those bushes and I'll show you what I’ll do to you." I meant it-and I didn't mean it. But I think he understood what I meant. For the longest time I hated Germans, even after the war, but my youngest daughter Michelle married a German from Germany. I didn't like him for a long time, but he is a fine young fellow, he works, they got married and have three beautiful children. He has a Ph.D. from LSU in Geography.

December 1941 I was teaching at Texas AM, I graduated June 6 1941 from AM, June 6 1944 was the invasion. I got my commission from LSU in 1939. I was born in New Iberia, across from the Evangeline funeral home. We lived in several places in New Iberia.

(I asked Mr. Derouen if he had ever ran into anyone from this area while traveling during the war) I wanted to tell y'all. I ran into Butch Kennedy, he played football for LSU when I was there. He was a husky fellow. He was a paratrooper. He got wounded in his thigh. We met in England and spent time together. I asked him, being a paratrooper, "how come you paratroopers are so brave", cause right after we made the invasion a lot of those paratroops had been dropped, and a lot of them landed in St. Mare Eglise, they were hanging from trees, dead, probably shot or what. The ones that landed were hunting for Germans. Butch told me, he said " You know, before me make that jump up there, we don't know whether that parachute is going to open or not, so when we hit the ground we feel safe and we are ready to take on anything". Y'all know Eddie Gatto. (Just then, my grandfather, Hewitt Theriot says out loud, "Don't tell me you know Eddie Gatto.") I didn't know him very well, but I know he died in Normandy. (My grandfather stands up from across the room and walks over to Mr. Derouen very excitedly and very happy to know of someone who knew his friend. He begins to tell a story that I first heard weeks ago about Eddie Gatto.) Hewitt says, 'It so happens that Gatto was my fraternity brother at LSU, Catholic fraternity at LSU, and we got to be very friendly. Recently a story appeared in the Times Picayune about Eddie. I have a son in New Orleans who I asked to go find Eddie Gatto's Grave and he did, wait I gotta go back. Some time after the war we went to the Normandy beachhead and I know that Eddie had died there so I went to the custodian at the grave. He had a book and I asked him I he could tell me where the grave of Mr. Eddie Gatto was. He said that I am so happy to tell you that the body of your friend was returned to New Orleans a few years ago'-Hewitt Theriot.

I ran into a football player in London, he was a big fellow, he was an all-American Tightend. I can't remember, but if you called his name…(Mr. Theriot says, " It wouldn't be Cavenauh?") "CAVENAUH. TIM CAVENAUH!" Mr. Derouen says loudly. We talked a little while in London. (Mr. Theriot says, "Tim Cavenauh, I can see him right now on the football field.")

(Feeling comfortable talking with us now, Mr. Derouen continues, excitedly…)Let me tell y'all about another little incident that happened to me just before I was shipped back to the United States. I was able to get a week's trip to Switzerland and the Army paid for it. 35 soldiers and officers could go on it. So we went up to a skiing resort in the Alps. But I couldn't ski because of my leg. But the hotel where we stayed was a girls ski club. At night they had an orchestra that played music and we could dance. These girls were Swiss and could speak broken English, but we got along good with them. I made friends with the ski instructor, and uh I really…(In the middle of his sentence he looks over, at his wife, whom is sitting across from the room.) she's look'n here now. (As he gently points towards his wife).

(About his wife) If you want to know the truth, I knew her since we were children, and when I got back to New Iberia in July, 1946, she lived right across the street from me, so my mama told me " why doncha take Lela out, so I took her out, and that was the beginning of the romance and a year later we were married. And Louisiana Tech gave me a job, they came to see me in the hospital in Georgia, and we had a little apartment there in Ruston. In 1948, LSU gave me a job.

I went to school from 1935-39. As a graduate Assistant in '39, I was paid $50 a month from TX AM to go study animal science. Room, board, and laundry was $30 a month. The second year I got a $10 increase, $60 dollars a month. I was saving all that money, and getting rich. Then in June 1941, they hired me to teach, they paid me between $300-$400 a month. I bought me a suit to wear. My first suit since I left New Iberia.

(Lela Derouen speaks) I was working for selective service; I was responsible for sending the boys off. Everyone was issued a draft number and when it was time, the board would review the files and pick the numbers of persons who were to go. They would send a notice by mail to your address.

(I asked him if he was informed as to the situation developing in Europe while he was at TX AM before the war.) Yes I was reading about it, I even tried to go in before my time. I wrote the war department and asked to go, they wrote back and said, 'when we get ready and we need you we'll call you.' You see I was in the cadet Corp at LSU. I was commissioned a 2nd Lt. I was on the regimental staff. We were well informed.

I wore an olive green square with a T and an O. It stands for 'Tuff Ombrey'.

Jeff Deblanc, Jason Theriot:

-Describing a seaplane wild dogfight in the air with German pilots
-Seacrest (Jim Seacrest, another pilot from Mississippi) noticed 2 German zeros and 2 bombers targeting one the U.S. ships; his wingman was Joe Foster
-Deblanc’s wingman was a man form New York, Jim Felton, was shot down and crashed into an island; he survived through the whole war
-Tells how he outmaneuvered one of the zeros, trying to free up Seacrest to go after the German bomber planes
-Was shot down by one of the zeros but the bombers missed their targets
-The fight probably took about half an hour

(8:25) Stuck on an island now and is trying to get back to his men (in Pacific)
-Found a hut and spent the night there; woke up the next morning surrounded by natives with machetes
-They were headhunters but Deblanc found that out later
-Showed him how to crack open a coconut; took him prisoner after he ate
-They put him in a covered caged in their village; kept it covered as the Japanese pilots were known to raze the villages if they saw any white people
-They may have been keeping him to trade with the Japanese later for rice
-He was traded to another village chief; this chief had connections to the coast watchers
-One of the men of this chief was a native coast watcher; they all spoke pigeon English
-Deblanc showing Theriot a spear and other things these natives gave him

(19:04) “U.S.S. Jenkins”
-Jan. 29 was given a pre-dawn take off to “scramble” some Japanese fighters (in the Guadalcanal)
-Too dark to see so they had to rely on the plane’s instruments; if not watching could fly into the water
-Knew he was going to the East and needed to go left to miss the mountains and return to the sea
-Engine began to fail that night in a fight and it ran out of oil so he needed to glide down to the water
-Decides he might have to jump out before hitting the land but recalls that early that morning another man in his squadron had to jump and his chute didn’t open
-The parachutes are replaced every 15 days or so and Deblanc didn’t know if his had been replaced or not recently so he chose to stay in the plane and glide it down to the water
-Notices that there’s ships (U.S.) everywhere fighting and churning up phosphorus; made a glowing runway for Deblanc
-Landed in front of “U.S.S. Jenkins,” the same ship that Rene Broussard from New Iberia was on (TH1-026)
-Told them to pick him after the battle was over in case they were sunk; they gave him a raft and picked up around dawn the next day
-Then on Jan. 31 (2 days later) was when he was shot down and on the island with the natives

(25:18) Return to the island story
-The native coast watchers took Deblanc by boat to a missionary church (Church of England)
-Met a missionary by the name Sylvester, also part of the coast watchers
-The next morning he had to leave as the Japanese were coming to check the church

(27:36) Getting off the island
-“That’s how I learned the British soldiers were the best fighters in the world”
-British soldier Henry Johnson picked up Deblanc from the church; they went through by trails in the jungle up the mountain
-While walking they saw a group of Japanese looking around below them, slowly heading up to where they were;
-At the time Deblanc had been wearing a Japanese uniform to hide himself (did nothing)
-So Deblanc and Johnson were trying to move out of the way of the Japanese but about 3 o’clock Johnson stops; he said it was time for tea and they stopped to have tea (never was caught by the Japanese)
-The coast watchers finally picked him up on the other side

(32:03) Spent 6 more weeks in combat and then sent back to states to teach pilots for another 6 weeks
-Got tired of it and joined up again in a squadron on a carrier; thought it’d be easier
-Had to fight Kamikazes and the weather
-Fought in the Pacific for 4 months
-Continued to teach into the Vietnam War
-Talks about his time teaching and flying
-Other aircrafts Deblanc flew in combat

(36:30) Talking about the country today and people’s stances on war and America
-How to overcome fear: “don’t panic;” environmental surroundings and background can be very helpful in one’s survival

(Cuts off into silence for the last 10 minutes)

***Disclaimer: recounting as a witness to an act of sexual abuse (55:06)***

Francis G. Doerle; Theriot

Pearl Harbor
-Was at Deer’s drive-in on East Main St., near a nightclub; on a date with his wife (girlfriend at the time)
-They were sitting there together that Sunday afternoon when they heard the news of Pearl Harbor
-People were going from car to car talking about it; it was the only thing talked about for days
-Already heard about the war from newsreels and a neighbor (Mr. Bernard) that had a TV with a 100 ft. antenna and could pick up other news stations

-Knew about what Germany was doing, had heard of Dunkirk
-Had heard of what the Japanese were doing to China but never saw them as an enemy like Germany
-Thinks Japan attacked the U.S. to stop us from declaring was on Germany
-Had a class A deferment so he couldn’t be drafted but signed up anyway since most his brothers and brother-in-laws were in the service too
-About 8 men from their family in the service and Doerle felt he should help too

-Worked for the Maritime Commissioner as a ship-building welder inspector at a shipyard in New Orleans
-They gave him the class 1-A deferment; built 6-7 liberty ships; worked as a fruit peddler on the side with his dad
His son David was born in February 1942 and a few months later Doerle told the draft board that he was leaving his job (and deferment) and be ready to send him off
-Was 24 years old at the time

In the Service (14:28)
-Oldest in his outfit, most were 18-19 years old or really 17 years old and had lied to join up
-Had no choice but to join the Army; wanted to join the Navy but the board said no
-Within 3 weeks after leaving his job shipped out to Camp Fanen Texas; stayed there for 10 weeks
-After basic sent to Camp Meade Maryland; outfitted with gear for overseas
-Shipped to Boston and put on a transport ship, “USS General Black” 10,000 on the boat
-Went through a terrible storm while crossing the Atlantic (sick the whole time)
-Were going to be replacements at the Battle of the Bulge; landed at Leharve France in a makeshift harbor and put on railroad cars
-When signing up, Doerle was with OJ Mannual (from Erath was a neighbor)
-They were together until split up in Nancy France; they were given rifles at Nancy

-They had landed in France in December 1944 and it was cold; they had issued clothes made from real wool
-After Nancy he was assigned to the 35th Infantry Division, 137th Regiment B Company, a rifle platoon
-January 1945 they were woken up and loaded into trucks; weren’t allowed to have the headlights on
-Drove till the next morning when they stopped to eat and continued on till evening
-Got off and it was ice and snow everywhere and each person was issued a white sheet to use a camouflage

Battle of the Bulge (33:00)
-They knew what was happening at the Bulge and the Germans were trying to break into Southern France
-They were there at the end of the battle to help push back
-When the Germans did break through, the 28th Division was completely destroyed
-Germans were strong people and very intelligent; the French were the opposite and lazy people
-Germans would change street signs and set traps to confuse or ambush the Americans
-Was at a town near the Ardennes Forest; the artillery and mortar shells would hit the trees and the branches would shatter
-Had to give their foxholes tops to keep from being wounded or killed by the falling debris
-The first night there was sent on patrol to capture Germans for interrogation; didn’t grab anyone for a few nights
-Had seen about 7 days of combat before reaching the Bulge; they didn’t tell them anything that was happening elsewhere

-One of his feet starting turning black but things started happening so he was taken from hospital after 5 days to help load/move ammunition trucks
-Couldn’t walk but he could drive—everyone needed to work
-Once into Germany they went through the Rhine Valley, Cologne and Recklinghausen; where he captured a German colonel
-Was at an outpost watching a bridge and saw some Germans near the CP and there was a colonel
-Another soldier took the colonel from him by threat
-Asked later if the German had been turned in by the other soldier and was told there was no German colonel prisoner (thinks the soldier killed the colonel)

***Mention of sexual assault and abuse***

***American soldiers were going crazy from fatigue and would destroy homes for no reason, loot and rape women; couldn’t stop them as they’d turn on you too; some did kill other Americans—sometimes they’d be fighting and those “crazy” soldiers would just shoot all their mates around them***

Firefighting and End of the War (55:43)
-Most of the time you don’t see who you’re killing; only saw once when he did kill a person
-Never saw the enemy face to face except when on patrol and when cleaning out towns
-Reached the Elbe River and stopped to let the Russians take over Berlin; Germans were surrendering by the truck loads to the Americans so not to be killed by the Russians
-Made a deal that in order to take German prisoners the Germans needed to surrender over American prisoners
-Took 10 days before the Russians took Berlin and Americans transported thousands of Germans by then
-Closer to the end of the war the Germans were easier to handle; only the SS Troops were difficult as life meant nothing to them

-Stopped at a town near the Rhine and found a well-stocked wine cellar; they had a nice time
-While there Doerle ‘s brother-in-law George came to visit; George was a warrant officer and was supplying three divisions
-George took Doerle to his CP that was a governor’s mansion and spent 2 days in luxury before being called back as they were crossing the river into Germany
-Took his first bath in three-four months
-Never saw or was in contact with is brothers; Harold was in the Air force; Paul was in the Navy in the Pacific
-Bobby was a Seabee in Okinawa construction battalion

Combat Life (1:09:00)
-Something not kept on the mind; especially the people you kill
-In situations like war each person has a different outlook and does what they feel was right; did what you had to do
-You don’t shoot someone eating lunch, you shoot someone who’s trying to kill you
-Always thought about what if he never made it back
-The war in Europe and the war in the Pacific were different
-Thinks the Pacific was probably tougher with having to take islands and fighting in jungles
-Europe was in cities and modern weapons to use (on land)
-Germans had more modern weapons than the Japanese; German machine guns fired 3-5 times faster than American’s machine guns

-Once crossing the German border, they advanced so fast into the territory their own artillery thought they were the enemy; sent off three volleys at Dorele’s outfit
-They were walking in the road in the open and the artillery thought they were retreating Germans
-Dorele knew the sound of American guns and knew they were shooting at them—but the 105 mm was slow so they had time to move out of the way (compared to the Germans’ guns)
-One guy was so badly shell-shocked just froze and fainted as everyone went to the ditches
-Another soldier ran in between volleys to grab him (confirms in TH1-043 that no one was killed or badly injured)
-Dorele’s outfit (35th) knew it was the 75th artillery unit ahead that was firing at them
-Was trying to call the CP to cease fire as the artillery were zeroing in on Dorele’s outfit's position
-Everyone was “hauling ass” to buildings and away from the road
-Dorele jumped a barbed wire fence with his gun, that got stuck in the mud and then 10 feet ahead of him a shell went off
-The shock caused bleeding to his ears (still has problems today) and he dove into the mud and made a mound to protect himself
-Finally they got through to the 75th to cease fire

-In the beginning of the war, carried a BAR until given a carbine; had a bazooka once to be used for German pillboxes
-Had to be careful when shooting at German tanks, the Panzer would just bounce the shells off

Transcription Begins:

Francis G. Doerle
Born November 21, 1920
35th Infantry Division
Battle of the Bulge

(December 7, 1941) I was at a place called Deer's drive-in on East Main St. There was a nightclub there. That afternoon, my wife, who I was just starting to court seriously, we were sitting there, it was a Sunday afternoon, and we heard that the Japanese had bombed Pearl Harbor. We thought about it a lot. Everybody was going from car to car. So we went about our evening as planned, and I took her home later and we talked about it a little bit with her parents. I came home the next day, and that was all that was on the news, that was all people were talking about.

Right in back of where I lived, Mr. Bernard had a tourist court and he was the only guy in town I knew who had a TV with a hundred-foot antenna. And he could pick up a few stations and we would watch the news (there), and at the movie pictures we would go to. During intermission they would show newsreels about the war.

Germany was walking all throughout Europe like there was no tomorrow. The only thing between Germany and us was Great Britain. That was it. Dunkirk had taken place shortly after that, so it was serious. I was aware of some of the stuff going on in China, although we were at war with Japan and Germany at the time. I wasn't worried about the Japanese. It wasn't a concern of mine. I never did figure them as the real enemy.

I had a class A deferment. I had a good job, but all my brothers were in the service, so I just decided that I had to get involved. I didn't feel comfortable staying here while all the men in my family were fighting in the war. I worked for the Maritime Commissioner as a ship-building welding inspector at the shipyard in New Orleans, so I was offered a deferment. I stayed for a while and helped build ships for the war. While I was there we built six liberty ships.

Before that I was working in the produce business here in town, and when I moved to New Orleans I was welding at the shipyard and conducting business for my dad at the French Market in the morning. I would go to the market at five in the morning to buy fruit and all kinds of fresh stuff. And my father would send a truck over there, and he'd call me and tell me what he needed the night before. After I would load the truck I would go to my other job at the shipyard.

My son David was born in February of 1944, and a few months after that I went to the draft board and told them I was leaving my job and to call me when they were ready for me. The draft board here knew that I was working in New Orleans, I stayed in touch with them every six months or so, but I had a deferment all that time. I was 24 years old when I decided to join.

The draft board was very strict and rightfully so, cause a lot of people would take off. Pete Oliver was on the board.

I signed up with OJ Manual from Erath. OJ and I got split up in a place called Nancy France. He was in a different outfit.

Within three weeks I was shipped to Camp Fanen Texas. (What made you chose the Amy?) I didn't, I asked for the Navy, but they said, "you got the Army." And that was it, when you got in that long line they didn't give you a choice. I took basic training for 10 weeks.

Most guys were from 18 or 19-years old in my outfit. I was the oldest guy in my platoon. Some lied about their age. There were some in there that were 17. This one kid named Ebiline was just 17.

At night, there was complete darkness (in combat). There were no headlights on cars or jeeps; you couldn't even light a match. This guy, Ebiline, started crying saying that he would never see his mother again. I told him he wouldn't if he didn't put out that cigarette. He had lit a cigarette in a foxhole. The next thing you know, you got an 88 in your pocket. And those Germans were so accurate with that gun. That was a hell of a gun.

After basic I came home for a few days then took a train to Camp Meade in Maryland. I got outfitted with all the gear I was going to need to go overseas with. From there I was shipped to Boston. I got on a ship (troop transport) in Boston and went through a hell of storm across the North Atlantic. I was on the USS General Black. There were about 10,000 troops on that ship. We went through the worst storm I had ever been in. It took the bow of the ship and bent it back like this. Fourteen days at sea. I stayed sick the whole time. Everybody was throwing up on everybody else. That was the worse (storm) I had ever been in. When we landed all I could do was suck on oranges; that was the only thing that I could keep down.

We had about 300 ships in that convoy with us. They were sending any and everything to the Battle of the Bulge as quick as they could.

We landed in December 1944. I was a replacement. I was to report to the 35th Infantry Division when I got to France. This was all during the Battle of the Bulge (December 16, 1944). They were taking replacements like crazy. I landed at Leharve France. From Leharve they put us in an ole railroad car, and old cattle car and shipped us off to where the fighting was all in the same day. There were 40 men in a cart.

Leharve was nothing but sunken ships and steel sticking up everywhere. It was a makeshift harbor that was erected in a hurry.

We stopped in Nancy France. This is where they handed me a rifle. It was snowing and ice (was) everywhere. It was cold cold. My gun was full of cosmaline. It's like a thick goo that they put on there to protect the gun while it was transported across the ocean. I had to clean it with gasoline. They said, "Son, I want to see that rifle shine."

They issued us plenty of clothes. It was all wool, real wool. I was assigned to a rifle platoon in the 137th Regiment, B Company. The headquarters was in Metz, France. That city was destroyed. Captain Azbell was the Commander of our company. I was ordered to report to the CP (Command Post). Angelo was my platoon sergeant. I still keep in touch with some of the guys from my outfit. We have reunions every year.

(The 35th was in combat at the Bulge. As men would get wounded or suffer from frostbite or battle fatigue, they would be sent to the back of the line. Replacements where they sent immediately to the front to replace these ranks.)

It was sometime after Christmas (’44); I'll never forget they woke us up in the middle of the night and we loaded on to trucks with all our gear. The truck had no lights and we drove down the road in the dark all night long until part of the next morning. We stopped in a little town where they feed us then we went back on the trucks and drove till late in the evening. When we got off finally, there was ice and snow everywhere. It was the coldest I had ever been in my life. They issued each of us a white sheet (snow camouflage).

We knew what was going on at the Bulge. And we knew they (Germans) were going to try to break out through southern France. But that didn't happen as you know. But we, the Americans weren't nervous about that. I wasn't there at the beginning when the Germans broke through; I was there at the end when we stopped them and pushed them back.

When they broke through, brother, let me tell you. The 28th (holding the line) was almost completely destroyed. The Germans were tuff soldiers. They were head and shoulders above us. There were some Americans, many of us, who thought that we were fighting the wrong people. The Germans were very intelligent people. It was Hitler's Nazi's that we wanted outta there.

The French weren't very smart people. They would shovel cow shit around the pipes that they were pumping water out of to keep the pipes from freezing, so it seeps down in the water-well. The cow shit would seep into the water-well. The French were lazy people.

The Germans were far more advanced than everybody else was. They were 20 years ahead of everybody. They had Autobahn highways, four lane highways. That's what gave Eisenhower the idea to build a highway system in the states years later.

The Germans, when they made their move, would turn the street signs around. It would confuse the Americans. A lot of Americans walked right into an ambush.

We got off in a little wooded town near the Ardennes Forest. The artillery and mortar shells would explode in the trees and the branches would shatter. (The flying pieces of shattered trees wounded and killed many Americans.) You had to build a top in your foxhole. I never dug a hole so fast in all my life. We used branches to cover the tops of our foxholes. We covered the tops with dirt.

That first night, my sergeant and I, Angelo Demem and about 5 others went on a patrol. Our orders were to find German's, capture them, and bring them back to the CP for interrogation. We stayed out pass the outpost for two or three nights looking for prisoners to take back. (The outpost was the farthest American post on the front line-closest to the enemy.) The Germans would walk by and we'd wait till they got close enough and then we'd stand up and shout, "Handy Ho you sons of bitches!" Handy Ho, you know, put your hands up. And we'd say, "Foshnell," which means put your hands up.

But we really didn't know anything. We didn't know where we were or want was happening elsewhere. They didn't tell you anything; you heard rumors, and that was about all. Some Sergeants might tell you a little bit about what was going on, if you got a chance to talk to him. See some of these guys had been on the line for months, some even since D-Day. I had only been there for 7 days, so I didn't know much.

My feet started to suffer. We were told to keep our feet dry, you know keep clean socks on. But I had one foot that turned black. I had to go into the hospital; I was off the line for about 5 days. This was later on. But they didn't keep me in the hospital. I helped move ammunition in trucks. I couldn't walk but I could ride. They needed every man that was fit to work, even those that were hurt. Till today I have to wear soles because my feet are nothing but bones.

I wore a long wool overcoat. Some weeks later I remember cutting it into a short coat because it was getting warmer. We were always on the move. I remember going into Germany after we got out of the cold, cold weather. We went into the Rhine Valley and crossed the Rhine River and went into Cologne. I went through Recklinghausen; that's where I got this colonel; I captured a German colonel.

I was out on an outpost watching the bridge with about 10 others guys and I came back into the CP, and I spotted some Germans near the CP. One of them was a Colonel. I took his pistol off of him; I still got it. Have you ever seen a good-looking German Luger?

This one guy in my outfit was really crazy. He did a lot of things in the war that wasn't right. I saw him kill other Americans. He killed some guys that were raping a woman. I saw him line them up and cut them down with a machine gun.

He took that German Colonel around the building and I followed him and he pulled a gun on me. He said, "Get your ass away or I'm gonna kill you." I checked with the CP later but they had no information on this Colonel. He was a high ranking German officer; he should have had some information. But he never got there. There was a lot of that going on.

I saw people going into other people's homes and destroying them. Beautiful things in these homes. They would knock things over and bust 'em and break 'em just for the hell of it. And you can't control most of it. Some of these guys were so off, so fatigued, that they're crazy, and they will turn on you. They will shoot you.

About a month or two later that same guy had a girl in a room and he made everybody get out. He raped her; he was out of his mind.

I got into a couple of firefights with the enemy. But mostly you don't see who you are killing. I only know of one guy that I actually shot and killed, because I went and checked him. The poor bastard had a picture of his family. You never really come face to face with the enemy, unless you are looking for a prisoner to capture at night. When you go on patrols at night you run face to face with them and when you are cleaning out a town you run into them. But a firefight that you know of, you rarely saw them.

Towards the end of the war up on the Elbe River I shot and wounded a German. I don't know if I killed him, but I know that I shot him. At night you could see the sky light up. You could tell there was a war going on. We were told to stop at the Elbe River to allow the Russians to take Berlin. And we did. The Germans were surrendering by the thousands. We could take all of them. It got to a point where we wouldn't take a German prisoner unless he brought an American prisoner with him. Truckloads of Germans tried to surrender. We agreed to take a truck of German if they brought us a truck load of Americans.

The Germans did not want to get captured by the Russians. The Russians would torture and kill them right there, because the Germans did the same thing to them. At the Yalta Conference Stalin and Roosevelt made a deal- the Russians would take Berlin. We stayed at the Elbe for 10 days waiting for them to take Berlin. We took a lot of prisoners in those 10 days.

Towards the end of the war the Germans were easier to handle because they knew it was kaput. They knew there was no chance for them to win. But we had to be real careful with the SS Troops (Nazi fanatics). They would kill you right there. They were the elite German soldiers who were Hitler's finest troops. Their life meant nothing to them.

I crossed the bridge at Remagen. It was the only bridge across the Rhine that the Germans didn't blow up. And we got there before they could take it out. It was the only bridge into Germany.

We rested in a little town near the Rhine for a few days. We ran into a wine cellar, so we had a good time. It was the finest wine in the world and every soldier had a case of red wine. My brother-in-law, George, found me there. He was a warrant officer. He was in charge of supplying all the men in our Corp. I got a call through the CP. He said, "Francis! God damn it, this is George!" I said, "George who?" He said, "George, your brother-in-law!" I said, "Well you SOB, what are you doing? Where the hell are you?" He said, "Never mind where I am. But don't you move cause I know where you are! And I'll be there in 30 minutes!" He drove up in a jeep with a driver. He was a big shot you know. I said, "George, where we going?" He said, "I talked to Captain Asbell. He said you can come spend a couple of days with me." I took a bath in a beautiful mansion, a castle that belonged to the mayor of the town. George was using that mansion as his CP. And I took a bath and I got in that tub and I soaked my ass in that tub for I don't know how long. It had been three or four months since I last took a bath.

We crossed that bridge a few days later. I went to Dusseldorf and Aachen. You should have seen Aachen. You would not believe it. There was not one roof on any building there. It was completely destroyed. Pitiful.

I was never in contact with any of my brothers during the war. Harold was in the Airforce flying the Hump (Himalayas). Paul was in the Navy, in the Pacific. Bobby was at Okinawa. He was a Seabee, a construction battalion.

(Tell me about combat life) It's something that you don't keep on your mind. The two people that I killed, I hardly think about it. Each person's different. You have to make up your mind. You are there to do a job and it's you are him. You decide what your responsibility is- to yourself, to wife, and family, to your children. You have to think of survival. I didn't relish the idea; it was something that I did automatically. If you saw a German and he didn't surrender right way, you gonna have to shoot him. You don't shoot somebody sitting down in a chair having lunch. You shoot somebody who's trying to kill you.

(Did you ever think that you might not make it back?) You think about that all the time. That's a given. Anybody who tells you that they not thinking about that is not being truthful.

The war in Europe was different from the war in the Pacific and elsewhere. In a lot of ways I think that it was tougher going from island to island. The European war was more of a modernized war. We were fighting in cities not in the jungle. The individual infantryman had a tougher time in the Far East. But the artillery part in Europe was worse. Those Germans could put an 88 in your pocket from 5 miles away.

That same little fella I was telling you about earlier, Ebiline…I saw him cut right in half. We were running from one building to another and the artillery was coming down and we ran into machine gun fire and Ebiline got hit and he folded over just like a piece of meat. The German machine guns (MG-42) fired 3 to 5 times faster than an American machine gun. It would go bbbblllllttttttt. American guns would go bum bum bum. That 17-year old boy got killed right there. I had to keep on running.

When we got into Germany itself I remember our own artillery thought we were the enemy because we had advanced so far. We were walking out in the open. They thought we were Germans retreating down the road. I heard these three volleys go off. I could tell it was an American 105mm. You could hear it coming. You got time to move cause it was slow moving. The Germans used those high velocity shells; you didn't hear them until it exploded. Anyway we were going down this road and I heard those volleys go off and I said, "Holly Shit!" And there was this guy who was kind of nervous; he was shell- shocked. He had taken about all he could take; he was about to blow up. But everybody was high-strung. Everybody up there had seen a lot, done a lot, and been through a lot. But this guy actually fell down right in the middle of the road. Everybody else jumped in the ditch when we heard those volleys. And this guy froze right there in the middle of the road. He was having a breakdown.

We started calling that artillery CP to tell them who we were and to tell them to stop. We knew who they were. They were the 75th. But before we could get them to stop firing we had to move quickly because they were zeroing in on that road, on our position. When those second volleys went off I jumped over a barbed wire fence with my rifle and a pack and all. And I cleared that fence like it wasn't there. I hurdled it. But the fence hit my gun and my barrel stuck in the mud. And man that was a no-no. Man one of those shells exploded about 10-feet in front of me and my ears started bleeding. I had enough awareness to get up and jump behind a mound of dirt for protection. We finally got through to those guys. To this day I am hard of hearing.

I was able to bring this Luger back to the states. I had to register it. It's a fine piece of work.

I carried a carbine after a while. I carried a BAR at the very beginning of the war. I fired it at some tanks. I also carried a bazooka. I fired it at German pillboxes. I saw a lot of German tanks. But you didn't want to be within 10 miles of those Panzers. Our shells would bounce off those Panzer tanks.

Howard Dugas, Theriot:
**technical difficulties in beginning; truly begins at 01:36; will jump and skip around throughout; highway and lawn care noises in background**

Pearl Harbor
-Was shooting pool that Sunday when someone ran in and told them the news
-Figured everything would be settled in a couple of days, they didn’t really know what was going on
-Had turned 18 and just graduated from high school so Dugas joined the Navy
-There was more volunteers than ships so new recruits were put in the Coast Guard
-There was a lot of areas along the coast and Lake Pontchartrain to patrol for submarine sightings

-Boot camp at Harrihan, La which was the New Orleans Army base
-They had to share as the Coast Guard had no place and things were moving fast
-Explained to them that the Coast Guard and Navy was one unit
-Sent to Lake Charles and ran small boats and kept the bridge closed or open for shipyard workers

-Started a new patrol in Cameron, La; couldn’t drive cars as it was a black out area to hide from submarines
-Assigned to a Destroyer Escort “SS Mosley,” for patrolling and standing watch; also patrolled on horse in swampy areas and to keep from having to use lights
-In the early part of the war German U-boats were sinking 1-3 freighters a day in the Atlantic
-This was before the Destroyer Escorts could take over for protection

-Patrolling on horseback Dugas thought it was too easy and asked to be assigned onto the “SS Mosley,” the Destroyer Escort (DE) they had been patrolling for
-Always on alert but most of the crew had no experience with sea duty and neither did Dugas
-The Captain had been an office man and had only 90 days of training in school before taking over their ship
-Once the crew felt comfortable manning the ship they went out to sea to Bermuda for a shakedown cruise; there might have been two ships that went

-A DE was established for escort duty and submarine warfare and maybe some aircrafts
-Had 3 one inch guns, a 40-mm and 20-mm machine guns, K-guns, depth charges and a hedgehog in the back
-Before leaving, a lot of assembling for operations was done along the East coast by Virginia, the Carolinas, and Massachusetts
-Also where the German U-boats, never saw one in the gulf
-Dugas’s group was the first to escort convoys using Des
-Escorted 90-100 freighters at a time bound to the Mediterranean; never lost a ship to engine breakdowns
-They knew submarines would follow them all the way to the Straits of Gibraltar waiting for them to stall or lose a ship in a breakdown to shoot them

-Made serval trips from January 1944 to May 1945 bringing men and materials

Missions (22:40)
-On one mission to North Africa and Italy was asked to break away on the African Coast and look for a fishing boat
-They didn’t know what language the other boat used so the Captain asked Dugas to speak some French but the other boat called back and asked “What’s the matter, you don’t speak English?!”

-Went by Casablanca but didn’t see Humphry Bogart or Ingrid Bergman
-The Germans were further east by then to Tunisia thanks to the British; Hitler had his forces spread out too thin

Only Mission with Severe Causalities (26:35)
-Around dusk in the Mediterranean the lead ship of the convoy had radar (to intercept enemy or friendly planes) and saw a blinking light of unidentified planes that were coming in too low
-They figured because it was getting dark that the planes were going to make one pass and try to hit the freights
-The planes were coming too low anyway for the ships at the front to shoot so they let the planes fly over; Germans were well organized
-A freight at the very back started shooting 20-mm with tracers that could be seen in the night and then everyone was shooting but it was too dark to tell where they were shooting at
-The first ship hit was a troop ship and it had bombs and about 600 soldiers on board and it was hit by a torpedo
-The second wave of attacks hit two merchant ships (materials) and third wave hit the screening ship, hit with a torpedo—all three were beached but not sunk
-Dugas’s ship, the Mosley, laid up smoke screens at dusk to confuse the planes but it was too late
-After that every night they laid up smoke screens in case they got attacked again but they weren’t, just a few submarines

-This trip might have been the third or fourth trip

-Another trip along the African Coast and at night the radar picked up a surface signal for a boat and sent a message out that a convoy was coming and to get out of the way
-15 minutes later a torpedo cut the lead ship in half; couldn’t stop to pick up survivors in the water, they had to keep going

-Lost a lot of people during the war; too inexperienced and many mistakes made, very unprepared compared to the Germans
-By the second to last trip the war was almost over and there wasn’t much need for materials being sent out all over, it was all concentrated in Europe by then
Didn’t have much news on how the war was going, sometimes picked up BCC broadcast yet they never said anything about the war but mostly heard Axis Sally (German propaganda)

-Passed through the Strait of Gibraltar (he thinks) 8 times

-The Mediterranean was beautiful and at night they could see the phosphorus in the clear waters; Dugas’s captain was always excited to it

(38:00) Shore Duty
-After about a year at sea, Dugas was transferred to shore duty in New York
-Really enjoyed it as New York was the place to be for entertainment, could do anything or see anything all year around
-Like music and sports and he could go see stuff anytime
-Was sent to Port Security School to learn to patrol docks and check ships for explosives and fire hazards
-The German submarines they figured had been pulled out of their waters and were closer to home, as submarine warfare started phasing out
-It was a good duty, as they could have fun and take breaks; “always a bunch of girls somewhere”

(42:00) Trip to Greenland
-Towards the end of Dugas’s service he was sent on a trip to Greenland
-Was aboard a Coast Guard Icebreaker—it had a knife at the bottom to break the ice

-They were going to check something out; the ship had already taken a trip to Greenland and captured a German radio station
-On the way an engine went out and a 4 day trip took 2 weeks
-The wind was against them and one engine couldn’t push through it and had to watch for icebergs constantly so someone had to stand outside to look for them
-No clue why he was picked to go on this trip; people were always being sent around, sometimes with no place to go
-Once in Greenland as they came in, had to help a fishing boat break out of the ice, they followed behind them for 2 days
-It was cold but they had good clothes of 3 layers; but the worst was when up in the bridge and the wind blew on their faces and burned them; it was always so windy

-Didn’t stay too long as they had to get the Captain of the North Atlantic patrol was stationed there but he had a nurse with him (his girlfriend) and they had to take her too
-Then they just killed some time as it was Christmas time and by protocol so much of the crew had time off and the radio stations stopped

(51:15) Back in Boston
-People were being sent home on the point system as the war was ending
-Was sent to Baltimore and was waiting around to be discharged back to New Orleans
-Took a train to New Orleans and his parents met him and took him back home to Parks; **tape starts skipping around**
-As things slowed down went to work off shore for a while
-Learned to how to cook and was cooking for the rig then and worked about 15-16 hours a day so he got some good money

(55:15) Talking about what he did after the rig, his leukemia, his family, and answering some questions from Theriot

**hard to hear with tape skipping and background noise**

Transcription Begins:

Howard Dugas (9/9/01)
Parks, La.
Born: 8/13/22
Coast Guard/USS Mosley (DE-321)
Atlantic Ocean going escort

On Pearl Harbor Day I was shooting pool in Parks, La. It was December 7th, a Sunday. Anyway, that's when we heard the news. Somebody came down the road and said that they bombed Pearl Harbor. We said, "Auh, we'll finish that thing in a couple of days." Nobody knew really what was going on.

I had graduated high school and I was 18-years old at the time, so I joined the navy with a friend of mine. We took a bus to New Orleans. There were a lot of volunteers. To begin with there weren't enough ships to assign everybody too, so that's one of the reasons why they put the new recruits in the Coast Guard. There were a lot of areas that needed to be patrolled along the coast. The Coast Guard had a lot of small craft and they were equipped for patrolling the waters. (There were subs all over the gulf.)

We were sent to boot camp in Harrihan, La., which is an Army base in New Orleans. Actually we had to share space with the Army, because the Coast Guard had no other place to train.
After boot camp I was sent to Lake Charles and we mostly ran small patrol boats, mainly to keep the bridge open at peek hours so that the shipyard workers could get to work faster.

Early on, ships were getting sunk off the coast [by submarines] because of the silhouette from the city lights. Later, we were sent to patrol the beach area near Cameron, La. That was a blackout area. (Bayou Boys-Torpedo Book.) We couldn't use cars or trucks to patrol at night, plus it was too swampy, so we used horseback to patrol. They called it the Animal Husbandry detail. We were about 15-20 men patrolling along Holly Beach. People were volunteering for the navy so fast, they didn’t have any place to put them. So they put us with this unit patrolling the coast until the navy could build enough ships. It was easy duty, but I wanted to do something more.

We were getting tired of sitting on the beach and riding horses. So a couple of us asked the chief to see if we could get assignment for sea duty. We had heard that they were building and commissioning destroyer escorts in Orange, Texas. And sure enough, a few days later we were assigned to a Destroyer Escort, the SS Mosley (DE-321).

We were very inexperienced. The Japanese caught us by surprise. The crews of the destroyer escorts were half navy and half coast guard. John Mcloud from Parks, La., was the storekeeper on the Mosley. He and I were friends.

We were always making preparations. We were on full alert, but a lot of that crew had no experience with sea duty. Being from South Louisiana I had been in small boats, but sea duty is really something different. Even the Captain was an office-man who they sent to a 90-day school before he took over the ship. But this was going on everywhere.

During the early part of the war, the German U-boats were sinking anywhere from 1 to 3 freighters in the Atlantic a week. These freighters didn't have any protection; they would sail on their own. This was before the Destroyer Escorts took over.

Once we felt comfortable enough to go to sea we went on a shake down cruise to Bermuda. That was nice, generally speaking. I think there was another DE with us. It was rough going there, but that's how you learn the ship, you go on a shake down cruise. There were only three cars on the island. Everybody traveled by bicycle. It was a beautiful place. The DE was established for escort duty and submarine warfare. We had three inch guns, and 40-mm and 20-mm machine guns for defense. We had K-guns on the stern to roll out depth charges, and we also had what they called a hedgehog. It was right in front of the flying bridge. It would (fire) shoot-up 24-small torpedoes at one time. We trained with all this while in Bermuda. We used as much of the equipment as we could while we were there.

The first mission was to escort a convoy out of Norfolk, Va., to Texas Gulf ports and back, which we did. Then starting in January 1944 we began escorting ships across the Atlantic through the Mediterranean and on to North Africa and Italy. Most of the convoy operations for the shipments of supplies and soldiers across the Atlantic were based along the coast of the Carolina's, Virginia, and Baltimore. That's where the convoys would assemble, and that's where a lot of U-boats would patrol. We were one of the first groups to escort convoys [using DE’s]. We were escorting 90 to 100 freighters at a time, bound for the Mediterranean. We had Navy ships and Coast Guard ships. In a year-and-a-half we made quite a few trips across the Atlantic (Starting January 1944 to May 1945). We made several trips. These convoys were bringing men and materials to the Mediterranean.

We were lucky though. None of freighters ever had engine troubles or breakdowns, so not one ship ever got left behind the convoy on the trip across the Atlantic. If one would have broke down, we couldn't have stopped for it. It would have been a sitting duck for the subs. Enemy submarines would follow us all the way to the Straits of Gibraltar.

Once we were ordered to break off from the convoy and sail along the African coast to look for an important fishing boat. (This fishing boat was friendly, so we pulled up to it and our Captain told me to speak French to them over the radio, and this other guy spoke Italian to them. The guy in the fishing boat came back and said, "What's the matter, you don't speak English!") We located the boat and escorted it to port.

And we went by Casablanca, but I didn't see Humphry Bogart or Ingrid Bergman. We stayed there at port for a couple of days. By this time the British had pushed the Germans further to the east in Tunisia. Hitler had his forces spread out too thin. I think that's one reason why he lost the war, because he was fighting on too many fronts and he ran out of gas.

(April 20, 1944) We were carrying everything in those convoys, even troops. In April we sailed with a convoy to North Africa. It was dusk as we passed through the Straits of Gibraltar along the Algerian coast. The lead ship picked up a surface contact in front of the convoy and sent a blinking light to the ship ahead of us to tell them that a convoy was coming—big mistake! German bombers attacked us in three waves. We used radar to recognize the enemy planes from friendly planes. But these planes were coming at us low to ground level and we couldn't identify them on the radar. They were coming at us from about 20-feet off the water. They were JU-88's. They came right down the line in our convoy and we were in front so we didn't shoot at them at first, but the ships behind us identified them as enemy and started shooting. One of the planes dropped a bomb and it hit a merchant ship carrying demolitions and troops. “The first attack blew the troop-loaded merchantmen Paul Hamilton out of the water, killing 580 men; the next wave hit two more merchant ships; and the final strike sank the screening ship Landsdale (DD-426) with a single torpedo. The Mosley laid covering smoke and opened up with anti-aircraft fire during the strikes. Her guns splashed one JU-88 and damaged another German bomber during the first strike.” (Source:) We got credit for that. We couldn’t stop to pick up survivors that were in the water; we had to keep going. There was lot of confusion and inexperience that caused this. After that incident we would put up barrage balloons and lay smoke screens at night for protection, and we never had another incident with German planes after that. But we ran into a few submarines.

One day we picked up a signal on with our sound gear. It was a German submarine. So we and another DE dropped dept charges. A little while later the debris came floating up; oil and trash from the sub. We were credited with, along with the other DE, for sinking that U-boat. That's what is terrible about war. A lot of people were lost during that war-50 million people died during WWII. On our last two trips we didn't have any problems, because the war was being concentrated in Europe. Hitler had pulled everything out of Africa and the Mediterranean and brought it all in close to Germany.
The Mediterranean was beautiful. At night you could see phosphorus in the clear waters.

(Inexperience and mistakes is what made the war last so long. We were unprepared in a lot of ways and our equipment wasn't as good as the Germans. There was no comparison between our tanks (Sherman) and the German tanks (Tiger/Panzer). The Germans had tanks, real tanks. Those things were monsters compared to the toys we had.) After about a year or so at sea they transfered a few of us to shore duty in New York. New York was a heck of place to be especially back in those days. I like music and sports, and New York was the place to be for all that. They had three ballrooms and all the great bands would come, and Madison Square Garden had great boxing fights. You could do whatever you wanted anytime of the year there.

While I was in New York they sent us to Port Security School. By this time the German submarine warfare had eased off. They sub's were also being pulled closer to Germany. We patrolled the docks and we checked ships for explosives and fire hazards. It was good duty. At the end of my service I went on a trip on a Coast Guard Icebreaker to Greenland. We were going to check something out over there. Before I went on that trip, this same ship and its crew had captured a German radio station in Greenland. We had engine trouble on the way. A four-day trip took us two weeks. It was real cold up there, but we had good clothing.

Back in Boston, the war was ending and they were sending people home on the point system. I got back to New Orleans on a train. And then I came home.

Robert Gerami, Theriot, Hewitt Theriot:

-Volunteered in Jeanerette with the National Guard; long before Pearl Harbor—early 1941?
-After passing the tests sent to Camp Blanding, Florida; trained in Company E, 156th Infantry Regiment, the 31st Division, and was the cook
-The camp was training draftees; Gerami was just a cook though so he was not part of these trainings
-Sent to Bowie, Texas to train some more before going to New York to be shipped out to England
-The whole 2nd battalion and a band came over on the ship “O’rentas Barrows”

-Snubb Derouen, from G Company, was with Gerami’s unit; he commanded Gerami’s company at one time
-Clay Penn, Warren Hebert, Wilson Clark, Norby Dooley, Jack Martin, Gerald Whattigny, were in E Company
-F Company was Breaux Bridge, G company was New Iberia, H company was Franklin; these four companies made up the 2nd battalion
-200 men to a company; but they were split in North Africa

(9:20) Spent 4 months in England, then went to North Africa and made MPs and then split, one half of the companies went to Italy
-In Italy Gerami was working in the police department as an interpreter as Gerami family was Italian and could also speak in French

-In England they were protecting the air bases; he was the cook so he didn’t do much but be a guard
-In North Africa at Oran they guarded German and Italian prisoners; stayed there for about 6 months
-Gerami was discharged in Oran 3 years later on the point system
-While there a large tent mess hall was built for them; had 2 Italian prisoners that helped him, G.G. and Rommell
-The men gave them their families’ addresses to give to their parents when Gerami went to Italy; their families welcomed them and cooked for them one night

(16:23) Gerami’s father died while he was in North Africa but he did not know until much later but he knew the army wouldn’t have let him go back for the funeral anyway
-The Red Cross had sent a telegram about his father’s death but he never got it
-Found out from Wilson Clark who had a letter from his wife telling him of Gerami’s father’s passing; eventually Gerami’s wife wrote to him about it
-His father was from Italy (Palermo?) and moved to Louisiana in Jeanerette for the sugar houses where he met his wife (Gerami’s mother)
-Was actually already married in Italy but left that woman and brought their two sons over to the US; those 2 half-brothers lived in Lafayette

-Spent most of his time at the camp cooking
-After being made MPs his company went to Italy to help secure it; this was where he worked in the police department
-They encircled Rome to run out the Germans; the Vatican was left untouched and they couldn’t go in anyway

(21:45) recounting his trips to England and Oran by ship; looking through different books at the pictures to help jog Gerami’s memory

-After Italy they went to France; doesn’t know why and never really questioned it
-Cooked mostly in England and North Africa and sometimes went around and did guard duty; tells some short stories
-Each company had 6 cooks and 3 cooked one day and the next had the day off as the other 3 cooked
-No one knew when they would go back home
-The Italians were nice, they never wanted to fight against the Americans, that was all Hitler
-More recapping his trips and work again with different retellings

(34:49) His Lt. came and told him that he could go home; the war was over by then (May 1945)
-Sent to Texas where he got his discharge papers and then went back home
-Talking about life before the war and growing up in Jeanerette
-Didn’t really try and get together with those he was with during the war
-Talking about his family

Transcription Begins:

Robert P. Gerami, Sr.
Jeanerette, La.
Company E, 156th Infantry Regiment, LA National Guard
Cook
Interview conducted by Jason P. Theriot

I volunteered for the National Guard here in Jeanerette. I was sent to Camp Blanding, Florida. We were Company E, (156th Infantry Regiment) 31st Division. I was a cook in the kitchen. We were in Florida training with draftees. We went to Camp Bowie, Texas and from there we went to New York and left for England. Our whole battalion (2nd) went over together, even the band. The O’rentas Barrows was the name of the ship.

We had the whole unit with us. Snubb Derouen, from G Company, was with us. He commanded our company at one time. Clay Penn, Warren Hebert, Wilson Clark, Norby Dooley, Jack Martin, Gerald Whattigny, all these guys were with us. We were E Company, F was Breaux Bridge, G was New Iberia, H was Franklin. Those four companies made up our battalion.

We spent four months in England, guarding and protecting the air bases there. I was the cook and the rest of the guys were acting as guards to keep the people safe. We went to Oran, North Africa in March of 1943. There was plenty going on over there. We were guarding the German and Italian prisoners. They built us a big tent, a big mess hall where I cooked. We had two Italian prisoners: G.G. and Rommell; they helped us clean up. They gave us their addresses back home in Italy and a letter to show their mama back home. We went to visit their parents [in Italy] and they welcomed us and cooked spaghetti and meatballs for us and gave us wine. We stayed there in Oran about six months.

My daddy died while I was overseas, but I didn’t find out till much later. Wilson Clark told me; that’s how I found out. I ran into him one time and he asked me about my daddy. I told him that my daddy was fine…and then he told me that his wife had written him a letter saying that my daddy had died. The army wouldn’t let me come home, and I don’t blame them. My daddy left from Italy [or Palermo?] to come here, and lived in Jeanerette.

We were split up and they made us MPs; half of us went to Italy, some went to Sicily. (The other half went to Corsica) We landed at Naples, and there was still fighting going on. In Italy I was sent to the police department to be an interpreter. I’m Italian, so I could speak Italian. I was raised with the French people and my wife was French, so I could speak a little French, too. They took me out of the kitchen to work as an interpreter.

The Italians liked the Americans. They didn’t want to fight…Hitler convinced them to fight.

Our forces encircled Rome and ran the Germans out of there. We bypassed the Vatican City; that was left untouched. We left from Italy and sailed to France, where we stayed till the end of the war. One day they told me it was time to come home, because I had the highest points in the unit; I had two kids, too. I shook hands with my lieutenant and told the boys goodbye. Gerald Whattigny told me to go see his wife when I got home. So I did and I told her that he was okay and that he would be home soon.

Three years overseas…that’s a long time yeah. After the first year you think that you never gonna get home. When they declared surrender and the war was over…boy, we were glad.

Charles "Charlie" Hagan; Theriot

-Hagan owned a barbershop; some family history of his father from Nebraska and mother from New Iberia
-The places where they lived; siblings and children he had

(02:47) Pearl Harbor
-He and his best friend, both married at the time, had gone to Avery Island that morning
-It was around noon as they were driving back that the radio announced the news; they had no idea where Pearl Harbor was
-At the time when he was in high school (learned this in debate club) was that the US had a small army
-The Democrats were trying to build it up as the Republicans were isolationists
-There was a peace time draft after he graduated from high school but Hagan wasn’t 21 yet
-So he went to LSU for engineering but failed in trigonometry and chemistry
-It was a hard time to get jobs now unless you could work in the oil field but one had to be weigh at least 180 lbs., and Hagan was too small

-Hagan’s half-brother was a barber and had a second chair open in shop at the time and needed an extra hand
-So he went to barber school and when finished had to work as an apprentice
-Came back home with his apprenticeship license and his father knew of a barber shop that Hagan could buy
-There was a second barber there that Hagan kept but he was an alcoholic so Hagan wouldn’t allow him to come in to work most times

-The war broke out and Hagan wasn’t 21 until July 1941 so he missed the June draft
-Later in the year there was another draft that caught him, but he was now married
-So he was given a classification of 3-A as they weren’t taking married men yet
-The next year of 1942 the draft broad started taking married men, Hagan’s classification changed to 1-A
-Hagan was already now thinking about voluntarily joining up to the air force
-When he did go to war, he had to shut down his barbershop but he had already paid for the next 3 months rent when he was drafted
-He told his father to either rent out the shop for extra money or continue to pay the rent—his father paid the rent the whole time Hagan was away

(11:29) Basic Training
-Draft in December 22, 1942 and had to report to the courthouse in New Iberia; there were 50 men and they were all sent to Lafayette to be examined
-If they passed the examination they were sworn into the army right then but if they failed, they were given classifications of 4-F and sent back home to wait to be called on later if need be
-Once sworn in they gave them 7 days to go home and get their affairs in order and then report to duty
-But they got some extra days for Christmas and really shipped out on January 3rd

-Took a bus to Camp Beauregard (there for a week) and in Hagan’s unit he had only one other person from New Iberia with him
-Was Harold Vilmore (he became a major’s jeep driver so he never saw him during the war)
-Vilmore was transferred to headquarters as Hagan was sent to A Battery
-Basic training was at Camp Stewart, Georgia; went by train and had to hike with all their baggage to the camp; it was a camp to build them up physically
-Was very insecure of his weight (125 lbs. by then) and height and doubted he could hold his own against about 200 lb. Nazi if it came to it

(17:14) Army Barber
-Was assigned as a barber for his unit at first as his captain knew his background
-Hagan would cut hair at night and not just for his unit but others within the camps
-Still had to do everything else everybody else would do but sometimes was given leave of his duties to go cut hair on army time
-Was paid, charged .50c a hair and everyone was allotted for 2 haircuts so they would pay $1 and Hagan would get 35% of the collections; sent them home to his wife

-Started getting weapons, a 40 mm machine guns; Hagan wound up as a generator operator
-The generator provided the electricity for the gun to be operated remotely and Hagan had to set it up and take it back down
-The halftracks had M-15 with a 37 caliber cannon on the back, plus two .50 caliber machine guns; the M-16 had a quad 50’s on the back
-Hagan was an extra so he was not assigned to any particular gun but had to be able to use either guns when needed
-Goes into detail on how each gun worked and mishaps when in combat as his unit was not really good

(25:47) Desert Maneuvers
-Sent across the country on a troop train and Hagan cut hair the whole way to California; not really sure where they were at
-There was no camp there but it was called “Camp Dump” as they were dumped off to go and build scaffoldings and showers for outfits (not clothes)
-They were part of the 9th Armored Division when they were doing maneuvers
-Sprained his ankle his last week of maneuvers and at the hospital met a famous actor that would talk and play pool with them
-Tells of his adventures of trying to find his outfit in the desert after he was discharged

(40:37) Different Trainings
-Jumping around to different camps for various trainings: amphibious, artillery—did exercises for different battle fronts in Europe and Africa
-They knew what was coming when they would go overseas
-Last camp was Camp Shanks (New York) waiting for a transport ship to England
-They were split up, A Battery (Hagan) and the cooks loaded up on a different ship while the rest of the batteries and headquarters went on a different ship
-Cut hair while they travelled
-Took 13 days to cross the ocean to Liverpool (February 1944) and went south to Bristol Bay to get supplies, weapons and halftracks

(49:45)
-Then went to a beach town and the batteries were separated again; one group went to marsh area while Hagan and others were a part of an invasion
-A and D Batteries were sent over the Channel on an LST with personnel and equipment
-Landed on Omaha Beach 3 weeks after D-Day; they joined up with Hagan’s outfit and CP
-Hagan was now a part of the 2nd platoon of A Battery

-St. Lo they had a bombing but Hagan had been told to stay to cut hair the next day; the CP was a mile from where the bombing was happening
-Ordered to find a foxhole from the retreating Germans to hide in

(audio cuts off at 57:30)

Transcription Begins:

When I was in high school, we had a debate club. I was on the affirmative side: Should the United States build up its Army to equal that of other nations? At that time the Democrats were trying to get our army built up and the Republicans were considered isolationists; they figured we had two oceans to defend us and that an army would just get us into war. I was the only one who really put up a good argument, but the teach called it a draw.

On Pearl Harbor Day, I had a good of mine—we were raised together on Fulton St.—we were inseparable friends coming up. He was married and I was married. We went to Avery Island. We were on our way back around noon and we were listening to the radio when they announced that Pearl Harbor had been bombed. I didn’t know were Pearl Harbor was; I didn’t anything about Pearl Harbor.

Back then, jobs were hard time around here, unless you were in the oil field. And I was a small man, so unless you weighed 180-pounds, you couldn’t get a job out here. So my brother was barber and he had a shop in Beaumont, Texas. He had two chairs, but he only operated one, and he could have used another barber. He kept mentioning that, so that’s why I decided to go be a barber.

I went to barber school and after I had to work as an apprentice. When I came out, I bought a shop from another barber and my daddy backed me up. After a while they had the peacetime draft come up, then the war broke out. I wasn’t 21 until July of ’41. I was married at the time; I had gotten married at barber school. So they gave me the classification of 3-A, as married. They weren’t taking married people then. But then later the next year, 1942, they started taken married people. That’s when they changed my classification to 1-A. I was drafted on December 22, 1942.

I had to shut my barbershop down. Fortunately, I had paid up on my rent for three months and my father kept paying the rent for me until I got back from the war.

I received my draft notice to report to the courthouse in New Iberia. There were about 50 of us. Then we took a bus to Lafayette to take an examination. If you failed the exam, they classified you as 4-F and sent you back home, where they might have called you up again later on. If you passed, you were sworn into the Army right then and there. They read us the articles of war and were then part of the Army. They gave us a seven-day leave to go home and take care of our business. After seven days, we were to report for duty.

We got an extra few days because of Christmas. On January 3, 1943, we took a bus to Camp Beauregard, which was the induction center. This is where they assigned you to your unit. Harold Vilmore and I were assigned to the 467th AAA. He went into headquarters, and I went into A battery. We were sent to Camp Stewart, Georgia.

It was just basic training. They built you up physically: hikes and obstacle course. It was military training. I felt insecure about my size. I was about 125 pounds. We went through bayonet training and all that. And I didn’t feel very secure; if I had to come up against a 200-pound Nazi and I had to battle against him, I didn’t feel too secure about that. Things like that ran through my mind.

So from the very beginning, I wound up as the barber. But the Army doesn’t have a barber; you got your haircut from the PX. But most of the units made barbers like me. Our captain assigned me as the barber, because he knew my background. I started cutting haircuts at night. Later on they had me cutting hair on Army time. It was beneficial because I made money. They gave me a roster of all the names in our battery. When it came time for payday, they’d come to me and if I had you down for two haircuts, then you paid me $1, fifty-cents a haircut. Then I take 35-percent out of that collection and I give that to the battery clerk. I took the rest. I sent all of that to my wife.

Then we started getting our weapons. The first weapons were these 40mm machine guns. I wound up as a generator operator. The generator provides the electricity for the gun to be operated remotely. So we trained with those for a while and then we got these halftracks. The M-15 had a 37 caliber cannon on the back, plus two .50 caliber machine guns. The M-16 had quad 50’s on the back. I was an extra so I wasn’t assigned to one particular gun, but I could be used on either of the guns.

We moved to California for six weeks of desert maneuvers with the 9th Armored Division. From there we moved to the east coast. We headed out of Camp Shanks, New York and board a transport ship for England. We landed in Liverpool in February 1944, and made it down south. We picked up our halftracks and went to a camp on Bristol Bay along the Channel.

We knew what was coming up; we knew we were going into France. Just before the invasion, the captain told me to give everybody a GI haircut. But just before, they separated some of us from the battalion: myself, the cooks, those who were assigned to a halftrack, plus all of D Battery personnel and their equipment. We went to one place and the battalion went to a marshaling area with their halftracks.

We wound up going over the Channel in an LST along with D battery personnel and equipment. We landed three weeks after D-Day. I ran into Al Duetney on Omaha beach. He was a photographer and had a print shop right here in New Iberia. At that time I joined up with the rest of my outfit.

I was part of 2nd platoon of A battery. The night before the bombing of St. Lo, I had reported to the CP and the captain told me to stay there and cut hair the following day. The CP was about a mile from where they were bombing. That morning the bombers started coming in. The ground was shaking. The captain told me to find a foxhole and get in it.

Charles Hagan, Theriot:

*picking up on the story of Hagan and Haas trying to get a plaque made in their battery’s honor for their action on D-Day*

(Official records saying one thing as the men knew another from their interviewed story)
-While in reality they had landed earlier on the beach and this was because the headquarters of the battalion landed around 9:30 AM and they filled out the action reports
-They listed the first units as coming in at around 9 AM; when the enemy gun had been knocked out well before then—big controversy

-Goes on to talk about different reunions and things he learned later about those he met during his time in the Army; mentions a few experiences and men he met while traveling after Bastogne

(13:50) End of the War
-Wound up in Czechoslovakia before going through Munich, Germany for occupation
-It was there that Hagan was told he had 79 points and could go home but the machine gun guy left so Hagan needed to take over it—still cut hair too

“I had a unique experience. I cut hair all over the States, I cut hair on the Atlantic Ocean, I cut hair in England, I cut hair in France, I cut it in Belgium, I cut hair in Holland, I cut hair in Luxemburg, I cut hair in Germany, I cut hair in Czechoslovakia. It didn’t make me a better barber but gave me a lot of experience. I carried my tools with me everywhere I went.”

-Looking at photos in books Theriot had, some which show Hagan cutting hair; some of Hagan’s personal photos; awards given; an article Hagan wrote

(20:42) slowly cuts off into silence

Transcription Begins:

Haas had to get all of his actions verified through the war department to allow this. They had to go through the history to document what was done. He got the report and took that to the War Monuments Commission and they approved it. It was controversial because the records show that we our outfit landed at 9:00 a.m. on D-Day. Actually, headquarters of the battalion landed around 9:30 a.m., so when they filled out the action reports, they listed the first units as coming in at around 9:00 a.m. Well, that enemy gun had been knocked out well before 9:00 a.m.

We started getting reports in the next day about the invasion.

I had a unique experience. I cut hair all over the States, I cut hair on the Atlantic Ocean, I cut hair in England, I cut hair in France, I cut it in Belgium, I cut hair in Holland, I cut hair in Luxemburg, I cut hair in Germany, I cut hair in Czechoslovakia. It didn’t make me a better barber and I gave me a lot of experience. I carried by tools with me every where I went.

Arceneaux talk about his introduction to music and how he became and accordion player.

1:48-Corey arcenaux originally played guitar (at 7-8 years old) but quickly prefered accordion.

4:00-He had mentor who taught him to play with all his fingers they practiced for seven month.

6:15-Arceneaux was a fan of Nathan WIlliams, he came to see him every week. One day Nathan williams brought him on stage

13:50-Arceneaux started a band at 17, he attended the holy rosary institute in lafayette. His first band struggled to find a steady guitar player.

15:37-Arceneaux was voted quietest kid in his school in 1993, he says he is very shy.

16:09-he won his first zydeco award in 1994

17:51-Corey Arceneaux's family initiated him to zydeco, they always listen to zydeco. His family took him to plaisance zydeco festival.

19:50-buckwheat has been one of his Idols.

26:30-Arceneaux does not speak french, only his grand parents on both side do, even his mother does speaks but not fluently

30.40-Arceneaux used to work as a DJ on KJCB radio station he even got an FCC licence for this.

35:39-His favourite musician at that time was Keith Frank

37:14-Arcenaux explains his song writing process.

47:00-Arcenaux talks about playing when he was under 21, he had issues when he was playing in casinos and bars.

Micheal Tisserand interviewed Bois Sec Ardoin for an arcticle on him and Canray Fontenot about Creole Music.

3:26-Bois Sec talk about the difference between Creole music and Cajun music.

Bois Sec Claims that he doesn't play Zydeco.

Bois Sec's Granchildren are also musicians, his grandson Chris Ardoin plays zydeco.

12:20-Bois Sec said he convinced belton richard to keep playing cajun music instead of shifting to swamp pop

Bois Sec says he feels good about the younger generations playing Cajun Music.

21:11: When Bois Sec was young, the clubs were segregated (split in two separete parts for black and white people)

26:29-Bois Sec started music by playing Triangle with Amede Ardoin at 

32:00-Michel Tisserand asks Bois Sec about his cousin Amede Ardoin

Bois Sec explains that Amede was liked by his family for being a great talented musician and he did not want to work hard.

34:44-"He didn't sweat much"

Amede had good relations with white people, he often played for them.

Bois Sec didn't have a record player at home, he could not listen to his cousin.

38:52-Bois Sec Talk about when Amede Ardoin was beat up by white men after a show.

Some white men did not like that a lady handed Amede a hankerchief when he was sweating a lot during his show. 

42:00-Ameded ardoin had to play dead so they would stop beating him, then we crawled to a man named Celestin Marcantel who helped him. 

According to Bois Sec Amede kept playing after he was beat up.

Later on, he got sick an started to become insane. He ended up at an asylum and died their a coupled years later. 

Barry Ancelet did a lot of work to find when and where Amede Ardoin died so he could have a grave to be remebered.

45:12-Bois Sec Talks about meeting and playng with Canray Fontenot

Bois Sec says him and Canray have a special chemistry  that they both cannot find with other musicians

55:10-Bois Sec says that some people wouldn't let him play blues at their houses because it makes people dance too close.

57:00-Bois Sec talks about Bon soir moreau, he doesn't know who wrote it.  He says it can be danced like a Blues, like a waltz or even like a two step.

58:52-Bois Sec talks about the styles of dancing

59:00-Bois Sec tells Tisserand about baisse bas

1:03:23-Bois Sec explain that music is a way to preserve the creole culture

1:07:47-Bois Sec and Canray were still in good health despite numerous health problems.

1:11:04-Despite not playing zydeco, bois sec already played at Plaisance zydeco festival

1:12:00-Bois Sec talks about Creole language. in music

1:15:53-According to Bois Sec every male in  the Ardoin family is a musician

1:17:42-Bois sec talks about emotions when singing

1:19:00-He has 14 kids

1:21:59-Bois Sec says he usually drinks whiskey when he performs "When you don't drink, you don't play"

1:24:00-Bois Sec talks about the Ardoin's family reunions

0:00-Lawrence Ardoin talks about his accordions and the technical issues he had during tours/recording sessions

6:54-Lawrence Ardoin talks about playing music when he was growing up and his childhood in duralde.

7.40-Lawrence did not hear good things about Amede when he was growing up

8:15-Lawrence calls Canray Fontenot's father Adam Acaze instead of Adam Fontenot

10:38-Lawrence played fiddle with his father (bois sec) when he was eleven but he did not like it. He stopped fiddle after Canray Fontenot quit performing.

Lawrence used to play in Lake Charles every friday

12:34-Lawrence played at the ardoin club (also called the Cowboy Club) in duralde

13:30-Back in the days people used to buy old houses to turn them into music clubs

16:00-Kids were welcome in the Zydeco clubs

16:40-Lawrence talk about the  baisse bas style of dancing

19:17-Lawrence talks about asking girls for a dance

20:30-Lawrence talks about Amede Ardoin

25:00-Lawrence Ardoin talks about house dances during Amede's time

26:40-Lawrence says his son Sean is a good entertainer and a good singer.

30:42-Lawrence talks what makes a song "sound" creole

31:40-Canray Fontenot was often drunk, the ardoins plyed "Mamou hot step" to sober him up.

32:38-Lawrence talks about a merry go round pulled by a mule in his town. People used to play music there.

38:05-Lawrence talks about mardi gras celebrations.

42:00-Lawrence talks about forming a band after his brother died

47:18-Lawrence talks about Boozoo Chavis and John Delafose

51:15-Lawrence talks about the rivalry between bands and the competion in music

53:40-Lawrence Ardoin talks about the racial segregation in the 1950, he says Eunice was very segregated

1:01:38-Lawrence talks about Chris first album (when he was only ten) for "maison de soul"

1:06:20-Lawrence claims that Boozoo cannot play his style, but he cannot play boozoo's style either

1:13:45-Lawrence talks about band etiquette 

1:27:24-"Zydeco is not a polished music, all the flaws are a part of it"

Milton Ardoin was Amede Ardoin's nephew

5:26-His father was Beaudoin Ardoin, he sang with Amede Ardoin

6:58:-Milton Ardoin explains Michael tisserands about the song "Mon bon vieux mari"

11:26-Milton Ardoin talks about Amede's death.

12:21-Milton was 20 when Amede died

12:36-Milton explain that 2 people were hired to kill Amede (Richard Miller and Elias Deville,  they beat him up and rolled over his head with their car close to Eunice (besides the "john deer place")

23:00-Amede played music at Milton's house, he played solo most of the time

24:50-Milton Ardoin tell about a time where Amede was shot by someone jealous of him.

32:26-Amede started the accodion after Milton's father (Amede's brother) gave him an accordion. Amede was still a child, his feet did not touch the ground when he was playing.

34:40-Milton could not visit Amede in Pineville hospital, because was working at the CC corps and he did not have a car.

36:45-Milton only visited Amede once. Amede was not the man he used to be. 

42:34-The two men that were hired to kill him were black

49:38-Milton tells about a time where Amede Ardoin was shot through a chruch window.

51:23:Amede Ardoin played for white and black people, mostly for white people. He also played with Dennis McGee who was a white fiddler.

52: 55-Amede worked im the fields with the rest of his family

53:04-Milton claims that Bois Sec never played triangle with Amede Ardoin

55:11-Milton was 16 years old when Amede got beaten up. Amede's mind was off after the accident.

58:20-Milton Ardoin's father did not go to chruch, his mother went to a baptist chruch. He does not remember Amede singing religious songs.

59:50-Milotjn Ardoin's Grand-Father (Amede's father) died when Amede was twelve. A bridge broke when he was crossing it with cows. His grand mother (Amede's mother) died when Amede was 30. She was very strict with Milton. 

1:03:31-Amede Ardoin never married, he did not have any official children

1:05:20-Milton Ardoin talks about "La valse des orphelins" to Michael TIsserand 

1:10:58-Amede could not play after his accident

1:15:09-Amede used to drink, he did not drink a lot because he was small.

1:20:00-When Amede had a cold, he would drink Castor oil to grease his throat so he could sing

0:15-The Ardoin brothers started a band in 1966 when morris came back from Mississipi.  They got together to increase their chances to all suceed in music without their father (Bois Sec). They played in Lake Charles, Lafayette and New Orleans. They named themselves the Ardoin Brothers aftert the Balfa Brothers. Morris talks about the formation of the band.

11:08-Michael Tisserands asks why Bois Sec Ardoin did not play at the Jazzfest. Morris says it's because he did not give an awnser to the Jazzfest organisation  . As he got old, Bois Sec always used to say he would stop playing but kept playing anyway.

16:50-Morris Ardoin starts to talk about when Amede got beat up and the racial segregation in Louisiana. People worked together but did not dance together. Black people could only enter white people parties as performing musicians.

0:27-When Sean grew up (in the 1970s), there were no radio stations playing zydeco music. Some Cajun radio stations played Clifton Chenier once in a while.

1:36-Lawrence Ardoin (Sean's father) played music with the family band (the Ardoin Brothers).

2:31-Sean started music by playing drums.

3:10-Lawrence Ardoin made between 600 and 1000 dollars per gigs in the 1980. 

4:14-Creole music was called French Dance or Lala

6:37-His father did not encourage him to play music

11:34-Beau Jocque was a big influence for Sean Ardoin when it comes to the rythm.

18:10-Sean studies in General Education with a social science concentration.

18:47-Sean says that Geno Delafose sounds "old style" like Lawrence Ardoin. 

20:58-Sean says that Chris was already a very good accordion player at 14, he just lacked visibility.

26:20-The dancing style changed, because the music changed too.

27:04-Sean started liking Zydeco when he was studying at LSU, he realized how important it was to preserve his creole roots.

30:04-Sean is proud of the Creole heritage, he wishes more people would be aware of the culture.

32:26-He did not speak french nor Creole at home, he wishes he spoke more.

38:00-Sean uses the example of Amede Ardoin to explain how black people are rarely given credits for the things they achieve.

39:30-Bois Sec could afford a confortable life by being a famous musician, everyone respected him

40:55-Him and Chris are the only musicians of their generation in the Ardoin family

42:15-Sean depicts boozoo as a very pretentious man, he charged a lot for his gigs.

44:25-Seans says that everyone in his family had jobs outside of music to be more independent from the music industry. They did not have to accept every gigs, unlike John Delafose.

59:06-Sean learned to dance from Erika, his sister

1:03:14-Sean explains that younger people don't like zydeco, as it was something for older people. At the time it was not as trendy as hip hop.

1:13:00-Sean says zydeco shares similarities with African music and Caribbean music

1:19:11-Erika and Sean talk about their experience with racism and segregation

0:53-At that time Christine Balfa was planning to do a record with Bois Sec (the album "Allons Danser" Released in 98), the interview is mostly about this project.

3:30-Her father (Dewey Balfa of the Bafla Brothers) already played with the Ardoin Family.

9:42-The Balfa and the Ardoin have always been close to each other, they often played together. Christine danced to Bois Sec Ardoin and Canray Fontenot songs when she was little. The families often played together at festivals.

19:05-Michael Tisserand and Christine talks about how Cajun and Creole music compare to mainstream genres such as country music and RnB

27:10-Christine explains the song "fond d'culotte" two step to Michael TIsserand. It's an instrumental song that Christine plans to record with Bois Sec.

Former Accession Number TI1-002

00:00 Talks about Ardoin kids. Wants them to open for him at Richard's but Kerman says no. Mentions Club Lexus in Grand Coteau. October 1991 was his first time to play there.
2:14 During the 5 years he and his wife were analyzing and studying groups performing he would sometimes sit in on accordion. One night, Retell Chavis (bass player) called Beau and asked him to fill in on accordion in his band, The Night Rockers. Beau said he was looking for a band but wanted them to change their name to The Hi-Rollers. The Night Rockers thought about it and said no, but when Beau told them he would find a different band, the agreed and became the Hi-Rollers. He said he named the band Hi-Rollers because he wanted to accomplish great things.
5:07 Over time, Beau lost the original members. Retell (one of Boozoo's nephews) developed a bad drinking problem and fell on stage with his bass during a show. Beau fired him the next morning but they remained friends. Chuck (who had been playing guitar) became the bass player. Beau found Ray Johnson (who had been playing with Morris Ledet) and put him on guitar. The drummer got on crack, robbed and stabbed a man and was now in prison. Beau was able to get Steve Charlot who had played off and on with Roy Carrier.
10:07 Whenever you have a band with each member giving 100 percent, it's easy to get right.
11:04 Bought a Fender 6-string bass for Chuck at Vincent's Backstage Equipment
12:12 Beau talks about the clubs where he performs regularly. He plays once a month at Vincent's, Mon Ami in Grand Marais and The Big Hat in Grand Coteau. Alternates the other Saturday and sometimes goes to Houston or New Orleans. He also plays at Raymond's in Port Arthur, The Harvest Club in Beaumont, JB Entertainment in Houston and Mid City Lanes in New Orleans. He will be playing at Jimmy's and the House of Blues in New Orleans and has some tours this year in London and D.C. He says he supposed to be playing in Germany, Belgium, Canada, Africa. Concerted Efforts out of Atlanta sets up the band's international tours.
18:46 Beau had been stationed in Mildenhall aabout 60 miles outside of London when he was Andres Espre. No one calls him that anymore. He didn't listen to Zydeco music then. He started listening to Zydeco when a couple of friends told him about Boozoo Chavis and he became fascinated by the sound of the accordion and the effect it had on the crowd.
20:53 Beau's injury was September 4, 1987. He says talking about it leads to depressing things.Things looked dim to him. The person he was with at the time was not compassionate.Things went from bad to worse. He had fallen around 20 feet onto concrete while at work. He was tightening a level monitor onto a vessel when the pipe wrench slipped and he fell backwards.He was brought to a hospital in Eunice where they put him in a tub and he couldn't see a doctor. He got fed up and had his family doctor call up someone he knew in Lake Charles, Carl Gunnerson. Beau talks about his surgeries and their complications. He's not able to do heavy lifting. He says the French and triple row accordion are not heavy like the piano accordion.
28:27 Wife from first marriage did not want kids but Beau did. She became pregnant after 10 years and had an abortion.
28:50 The phone rings and Beau steps away to talk to Caveman for a bit to discuss meeting times for their gigs that weekend.

Musical performance of Give Him Cornbread

0:00 Tisserand is traveling with the Hackberry Ramblers and their crew and guests and have arrived in New York City for the Grammy Awards ceremony for which they have been nominated. Luderin Darbone talks about using an amplifier with the violin. The violin couldn't compete with the volume of the accordion, but the accordion has only so many notes and the violin gives you the half notes that some tunes need. Tisserand points out Radio City Music Hall, where the Grammy ceremony will be held. Darbone says the band has gone through 30-40 musicians over the years but has only had one violin player. He says his influences are Hank Williams and Bob Wills and mentions an old late-night Bob Wills radio program out of Tulsa that he used to listen to in the car.
5:15 He talks about how he found out he was nominated for a Grammy and how he responded. The Hackberry Ramblers recorded their first record, a 78, on RCA's Bluebird label in 1935. He tells the story of the first time he visited New York with his wife in 1970 while taking a trip to visit friends and Nova Scotia.
14:08 They have arrived at the Grammy ceremony and are being interviewed. Darbone tells the interviewer that the band started in 1933. When asked if he ever thought the band would be playing this long (65 years), he tells the interviewer that he didn't expect they'd play 2 or 3 years. They started at a time when jobs weren't available and piut the band together to make money playing dances and parties. He talks about how music has changed since then and how, in SW Louisiana at the time they begin playing, people were tired of hearing Cajun music and enjoyed their hillbilly music. He talks about the bands influences, how audiences respond to the group, and what it feels like to be up for a Grammy.
21:25 When asked about retirement, he says it's too late to retire. He's asked about how it feels to be playing that night with Jim Lauderdale, Ralph Stanley, Guy Clark, and the other nominees. He tells the story of the first amplifier they used in 1934. He was living in Crowley and a lot of country dancehalls had no electricity. He found a guy in Rayne that had a generator that converted AC to DC.

Former Accession # TI1-017

1:09 Brasseaux begins by telling the history of the populations of South Louisiana as a whole and says it's regarded by anthropologists and cultural geographers as the most complex rural society in rural U.S. Most outsiders believe that the French speaking culture is monolithic but it is anything but. The French speaking population arrived from a multitude of regions. The second largest free black community was in this region of south central Louisiana, the first being in New Orleans. He talks about the manumission of the mistresses of white planters and their children. Many of the free black were prosperous and some even owned their own slaves. During the Civil War, their sympathies would often lie with the Confederacy.
8:20 Land among the Mississippi was a premium during the 18th century and the free blacks migrated to New Orleans or this region where there was more available land. Transportation was waterborn. A long-lot system was adopted from Normandy and Canada. This gave the land owner access to the stream, which was their means of communication, and the more fertile land. In the 19th century, a large black community emerged from the surplus slaves from the Carolinas, Virginia and Tennessee being brought in from slave merchants. The French speaking black population was tied to the French speaking white population by culture and religion.
13:00 Students did a research paper on Allons Danser Colinda. The Calinda dance originated in Africa and brought in by slaves from the West Indies.
15:00 There are differences in areas where there were nodules of settlements along Bayou Teche and Bayou Vermillion. The geographical area where Zydeco originated forms a triangle from Ville Platte to Crowley to Cankton. That's the region where three cultures came together--the free black community, white creoles and prairie Cajuns. The crossing of the cultures is represented in the music and in the cuisine.
20:00 The musical distinctions came in the 40s and 50s when Cajun became more country and Zydeco became more Rhythm & Blues, and with the introduction of Swamp Pop.
22:00 Going back to the 19th century, it wasn't usual for black musicians to play white parties. Amede Ardoin and Clifton Chenier were successful at melding styles. The country dances early on were a form of entertainment and a way to renew community ties. They were mostly free from violence prior to the Civil War, but became increasingly violent post-Civil War. Dance Halls also faced issues of violence--especially when people from other communities would gather. The people in the area were self-isolated socially and culturally due to negative stereotypes.
25:15 There was a multitiered society in the beginning of the 19th century with white Creoles being the top aristocratic tier, followed by the Acadians, the free people of color, and then the slaves. After the Civil War, the region was seemingly third world with small elite and middle-classes and a large number of dispossessed. There was a large migration to E. Texas by economic refugees at the beginning of the 20th century. under the tenantry system, people of all backgrounds worked side-by-side in the fields which was a source for cross-cultural exchanges.
38:57 There were staggering acts of violence in the Cajun prairie areas in the early part of the 20th century. There was an attempt to establish a chapter of the Ku Klux Klan in Lafayette until the newspaper published a member list which led the group to disband.
43:00 Cookie and the Cupcakes played at the Southern Club in Opelousas but were not allowed in the club itself, only the bandstand. This was common up through the 1950s. Mrs. Hebert, a war widow in New Iberia, transformed her house into a dancehall in the wake of the Civil War. He says Tisserand should contact Shane Bernard about stories at the Southern Club when black musicians crossed the line.
47:30 They talk about violence in the black community at the turn of the century in the region.
53:20 There are some myths dispelled such as one that Mallet refers to mulatto. The talk about influx of migration from Santo Domingo.
57:00 Only in the last Census is there a category for Cajun. But there is none for Creole. Brasseaux grew up in southern St. Landry Parish. There was little Creole and Cajun music performed when he was growing up because it was a time when those communities were under extreme stress. Cajun culture was publicly denigrated in the Opelousas newspaper as late as 1964. Most of Clifton's shows were on the road, particularly East Texas. It wasn't until the first Cajun Music Festival in 1974 that young Cajun activists insisted that Creole musicians be included. The members of the Cajun elite (including Barry Ancelet and Jimmy Dimaggio) who were part of the CODOFIL establishment were adamantly opposed to their inclusion. The festival provides a forum for these people who had been shoved aside during the 40s and 50s. Had it gone another decade. Brasseaux believes both musical forms may well have disappeared. It attracted a new following of younger generations.
1:05:55 They talk about efforts to stamp out the local cultures in the mid 20th century by educators. This trend was reversed in the 70s for the Cajun clulture, followed by the Creoles in the 1980s.
1:09:40 Tisserand asks about social functions and institutions in the late 19 and early 20th centuries. The Cajuns had a social function that enforced a sense of community called la ramasserie, which was a communal harvest of people gathering to help out those who were shorthanded. They was another institution called a boucherie, which was a weekly butchery for people in the community. The dances were for community ties as well but also included courting rituals. It was discovered only recently that many Jewish families of German and Eastern European consciously changed their identities and converted to Catholicism to integrate into the community. There were instances of a need to look for outer marriages in some Creole communities like Natchitoches due to the small population. There were high instances of genetic problems in areas where there was horizontal marriage. This was more common in bayou areas than in the prairie areas where people could move around more freely.
1:15:57 The talk about the genetic presence of Native American blood in the Cajun and Creole cultures. Brasseaux believes it is exaggerated. He said the natives in the region were sparce to begin with and that the Attakapas Indians were cannibalistic. The last full-blood Attakapas died before 1910. There was a western influx of Coushatta Indians in the 1790s but their co-mingling was limited. The Chitimacha intermarried but is was largely confined to the Charenton area. Within a decade of their arrival, the Acadians formed commercial ties with the Attakapas with a smuggling ring that extended into central Texas.
1:22:60 The term 'bright' is often used by the darker-skinned black community to describe the lighter-skinned community. The tension between the two communities and lingering hostility is discussed.

0:00 McCormick compiled two LPs "A Treasury of Field Recordings" put out by 77 Records in England around 1959 to let other people know about musical traditions in Houston. He said he wouldn't do it again. It's too much of a mish mash and nobody likes all of it, but that that's the nature of documentary recordings. He says when he talks about Zydeco, he means the music of Frenchtown in Houston. He doesn't accept the second layer of the use of the word Zydeco and believes in was usurped by Louisiana tourists and that the lines were blurred in the 1960s.
7:50 McCormick says that zydeco came before Clifton Chenier. Clifton brought it back with his heated performance, but his period of fame and influence came later than what he's talking about. By the 1940s when he started recording it wasn't common in Frenchtown. He says he remembers seeing all of these different spellings of the word on posters including zordico and Lightnin' Hopkins put out a record called Zologo. He talks about deciding on the spelling of the word and settling on 'zydeco'. His spelling ended up being the one most used. He talks about doing the same thing with the word 'songster' from his record note writing. He talks about a lack of black scholars.
16:40 He worked for the Smithsonian for 10 years. He was interested in and worked in jazz earlier. When he heard a man playing guitar on the street he became interested in that kind of music and began recording people around Houston and branched out to E. Texas. It was then that he realized his real interest was in what makes cultures expressive and when and why the cultural expressions happen. He doesn't have the answers but, in his research, found things that suggest answers. He gives the example of the 4th ward section of Houston which had a population of 10,000 people in the 1920s that produced 200 professional musician. There was a grocer in the neighborhood who had put a piano in front of the store and the kids would fight to play it and an older man would teach them. He recorded Buster Pickens and did a movie about him and then went to Austin to find Robert Shaw and found that he knew the distinctive 4th ward sound.
25:10 He talks about the German influences that are overlooked and gives some examples of how they could have influenced early jazz and blues and the use of brass instruments and the accordion. He found the influences all along the gulf coast. He says that there was more investigation into guitar players than piano players in blues. He says there was a begrudging acknowledgement of piano and women singers and jug bands.
35:00 He talks about doing a grid search around Texas and Louisiana and finding there were pockets of interest in different instruments and styles. In 1965 he was invited to bring some convicts to Newport to sing Texas work songs.
40:30 McCormick mentions Carl Seashore, a psychologist who studied musicianship in the 1920s. He looked at the abilities of the families of musicians.
47:35 He talks about what Frenchtown and the adjacent sections were like at the time he was doing his fieldwork and Frenchtown's Catholic distinction and the perception of the Frenchtown community by blacks outside of the community.
52:52 They talk about the folk etymology of La la, Zydeco. McCormick talks about including mediocre artists on his Treasury of Field Recordings to document what was happening and the roots of later, more-famous artists like Clifton Chenier. He talks about star-power's ability to corrupt what's commonplace in the musical genres.
59:00 He believes Anderson Moss to be the most accomplished musician in Zydeco who did not deviate in the way Clifton Chenier did. Clifton asked McCormick to help him get some recognition and he said it reminded him of Jimmy Ford "The Great White Bird". But he never recorded him. It's not what he was interested in. He doesn't recommend show business. He thinks Anderson Moss made better decisions than Clifton in that regard. He talks about Clifton and Lightnin' Hopkins fighting on stage. Irene's was a small stage in Houston where the prima donna attitudes where not tolerated.
1:14:55 They talk about the last years of Clifton's life and about what Tisserand's book will be about. McCormick talks about Lightnin's association with Zydeco musicians and Spider Kilpatrick's presence in the band and cultural overlaps in the music in Houston back when he was working in field recording. They discuss the geography of Frenchtown and the surrounding area. McCormick believes that Kashmere Gardens was designed to attract the Louisiana migrants and about Houston's growth. Frenchtown was a sort of tourist destination for other Houston residents. McCormick talks about the string bean breaking dance. He says Zydeco was the dance first.